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Torsen front differential anyone?

THIS FORUM IS FOR ANY QUESTIONS ON THE 7.25" IFS FRONT DIFF, CV HALF SHAFTS AND FRONT DRIVE SHAFT.

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Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by Captn. Crunch » Fri May 08, 2015 2:14 am

I picked up a cast iron front differential and have been saving up to have Engineered Performance do their limited slip mod so I would truly be awd. Then I find thishttp://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=102077

It seems there is a chance that torsen diffs will be available in small runs. Up until now the only options were the Richmond lock rite "lunchbox" locker which is easy to install but tears your front end to bits or the EP LSD. I love my torsen rear and love he idea of having matching diffs front and rear. I have emailed Aarron to express my interest and he replied that the first batch is being engineered so I will pass on info as I get it or you can make your own inquiries. I would think the more the merrier
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"I don't beat my rig-I use it to it's maximum potential"
1994 Safari conversion (sold) and miss'n it!
1999 Safari SLE AWD junked
2003 GMC Safari AWD SLT
cast iron Torsen equipped front diff
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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by Cobra » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:57 pm

i'm interested that would make me super happy
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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by Captn. Crunch » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:46 am

Heres the email i sent and the reply i recieved. I am also VERY interested in seeing if this comes to fruition!

We will have the rights to the torsen dif's and will be making them available after we have the first order complete. I will not have enough information until this first order is complete. After that I will be able to give you more information such as price and time to delivery.

Hope you understand.

Thanks


Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2015 9:50 AM
Subject: Torsen front diff

Hello
I see you have found someone who builds Torsens for our 7.2 ifs. I'm a gmc safari awd owner and am interested in this as well. I have a cast iron front diff I'm looking to LSD. Engineered Performance has a unit but I'm already torsened in the rear and matching up front would be preferable to mixing technologies.
If its not too much trouble could you let me know if this is something I could get in on?

Thanks

Rich

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Captn. Crunch
"I don't beat my rig-I use it to it's maximum potential"
1994 Safari conversion (sold) and miss'n it!
1999 Safari SLE AWD junked
2003 GMC Safari AWD SLT
cast iron Torsen equipped front diff
S-10 leafs-G80 rear w/3.73’s
2” body lift w/Falken Wildpeak AT’s

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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by Captn. Crunch » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:47 pm

I have once again spoken with Aaron in regards to the status of the torsen units being manufactured for the sy/ty astro/safari S10/ZR2 front ends. He has been in contact with the manufacturer and things are progressing slower that hoped but progressing.
As I already have a torsen rear diff I was on line looking for info on vehicles that have front and rear Torsens. I found this forum and link. I found it very positive in regards to handling


http://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?thr ... 909/page-2


I am looking forward to livening up the np236 case and seeing what low range and twin Torsens can do!
Captn. Crunch
"I don't beat my rig-I use it to it's maximum potential"
1994 Safari conversion (sold) and miss'n it!
1999 Safari SLE AWD junked
2003 GMC Safari AWD SLT
cast iron Torsen equipped front diff
S-10 leafs-G80 rear w/3.73’s
2” body lift w/Falken Wildpeak AT’s

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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by Captn. Crunch » Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:51 pm

So here they are! The first three 7.2 torsen LSD's have been delivered. These will be installed in syclone/typhoon trucks and tested. I have replied with my intention to purchase. My but they're pretty!
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Captn. Crunch
"I don't beat my rig-I use it to it's maximum potential"
1994 Safari conversion (sold) and miss'n it!
1999 Safari SLE AWD junked
2003 GMC Safari AWD SLT
cast iron Torsen equipped front diff
S-10 leafs-G80 rear w/3.73’s
2” body lift w/Falken Wildpeak AT’s

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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by Herbie » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:22 pm

Cool!

I might have missed it, but could these be combined with a Blazer driveshaft disconnect? I know it's only a limited slip, but it feels like I won't want the bias on the street...
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2003 Astro AWD Astrolander/ZMB - GTRV Top Transplant, 4" OLV Lift, NP233 T-case, evolving interior
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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by Captn. Crunch » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:55 pm

Hey Herbie how you doing? Great question. First I want to start with the fact that the new Ford Raptor trucks now have torsen front diffs. If its good enough for a raptor it's good enough for me. Now to your question. Torsens are torque multipliers. They divide up traction. If you have a wheel in the air you need to touch your brakes to create resistance so the opposite wheel is powered. With the axle disconnect, it will think a wheel is in the air and go dormant. There should be no torque bias what so ever. I am still undecided as to one or two piece axle. There is someone I am in contact with who had been modifying the np236/246 cases to eliminate the clutch pre-load. If he is successful, I will perform the mods and run solids but that is down the road. Right now I'm super excited these things are coming off the line and its happening
Captn. Crunch
"I don't beat my rig-I use it to it's maximum potential"
1994 Safari conversion (sold) and miss'n it!
1999 Safari SLE AWD junked
2003 GMC Safari AWD SLT
cast iron Torsen equipped front diff
S-10 leafs-G80 rear w/3.73’s
2” body lift w/Falken Wildpeak AT’s

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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by Stroverlander » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:08 pm

Captn. Crunch wrote:Hey Herbie how you doing? Great question. First I want to start with the fact that the new Ford Raptor trucks now have torsen front diffs. If its good enough for a raptor it's good enough for me. Now to your question. Torsens are torque multipliers. They divide up traction. If you have a wheel in the air you need to touch your brakes to create resistance so the opposite wheel is powered. With the axle disconnect, it will think a wheel is in the air and go dormant. There should be no torque bias what so ever. I am still undecided as to one or two piece axle. There is someone I am in contact with who had been modifying the np236/246 cases to eliminate the clutch pre-load. If he is successful, I will perform the mods and run solids but that is down the road. Right now I'm super excited these things are coming off the line and its happening
Interested in reading the feedback on the those trying out the Torsen. Did anyone ever comment on who the manufacturer actually is?

What's the intended effect of reducing or eliminating clutch preload?
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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by Captn. Crunch » Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:55 am

Stroverlander wrote:
Captn. Crunch wrote:Hey Herbie how you doing? Great question. First I want to start with the fact that the new Ford Raptor trucks now have torsen front diffs. If its good enough for a raptor it's good enough for me. Now to your question. Torsens are torque multipliers. They divide up traction. If you have a wheel in the air you need to touch your brakes to create resistance so the opposite wheel is powered. With the axle disconnect, it will think a wheel is in the air and go dormant. There should be no torque bias what so ever. I am still undecided as to one or two piece axle. There is someone I am in contact with who had been modifying the np236/246 cases to eliminate the clutch pre-load. If he is successful, I will perform the mods and run solids but that is down the road. Right now I'm super excited these things are coming off the line and its happening
Interested in reading the feedback on the those trying out the Torsen. Did anyone ever comment on who the manufacturer actually is?

What's the intended effect of reducing or eliminating clutch preload?
"It's a company that builds units for Torsen,Eaton and others kind of a supplier to larger well known companies."
That's a quote from the guy who started this whole thing over on the sy/ty site. There are front ends all tore apart and awaiting delivery on these things so testing should commence very soon and judging by the signatures on some of these trucks, I would guess the testing will be extreme.
As to why someone would wish to attempt to adjust the clutch pack preload. As we know, the preload keeps everything in the forward portion of our drivetrain in motion at all times. This is fine when the vehicle is in stock configuration. You want everything already spinning so when wheel slip is detected and the encoder motor applies pressure to the clutch pack, the power transfer to the front wheels is practically instant. For those of us who have modified or are looking to modify our front ends this could cause issues. An open ( stock) differential puts power to the wheel with the least amount of traction. This is fine on dry pavement. In a compromised traction situation this is less than ideal. A limited slip differential ( LSD)would supply power to both wheels. With power to both wheels AND parasitic power being supplied at all times, low speed turning will probably be accompanied by crow hopping such as when our clutch plates are stuck together because we didn't use Autotrac II fluid in the tc.
The only drawback to this will be the fact that the parts aren't spinning before clutch actuation and there might be -will probably be a slight delay in awd activation. Slight probably being measured in miliseconds.
Another way to go is to remove the stock one piece rt. side axle and install the S-10 style two piece. These are locked together either by vacuum system ( problem plagued) or by aftermarket cable ( preferred). A two piece axle and a Torsen style LSD together should negate the need for clutckpack mods. Because Torsens need both wheels on the ground to funtion, the axle disconnect will render the front end dormant. Any torque being sent forward will be dispersed at the carrier and will not reach the wheels. True two wheel drive. When added traction is required, a pull of the cable will lock the pass. side axle in and the Torsen diff will begin to work. This is the direction I am leaning towards.
Captn. Crunch
"I don't beat my rig-I use it to it's maximum potential"
1994 Safari conversion (sold) and miss'n it!
1999 Safari SLE AWD junked
2003 GMC Safari AWD SLT
cast iron Torsen equipped front diff
S-10 leafs-G80 rear w/3.73’s
2” body lift w/Falken Wildpeak AT’s

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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by Stroverlander » Thu Oct 01, 2015 6:45 pm

You know, when you said "eliminate clutch preload" I was thinking about it the opposite way and couldn't figure out why you would want to effectively lock the clutch with the problems that occur which you mentioned. The only thing I could think of is that you maybe wanted the t-case locked all the time and were going to use axle disconnect up front.

Now that I know you're talking about reducing clutch preload, it all makes sense. Thanks for helping clarify! :D
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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by racrx7 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:09 am

There is someone I am in contact with who had been modifying the np236/246 cases to eliminate the clutch pre-load.
Later model 246 TC's went away from pre loaded clutches. Having both a 236 and 246 opened up and disassembled, a lot of the internals are interchangeable. That being said, the later 246's use a different clutch hub, clutch apply plate, a different clutch return spring that is mounted in the hub instead of the apply plate, a different range selector/clutch cam, clutch plate apply arm and finally, a different encoder motor. SO, not a cheap mod unless a later model 246 can be had for parts. Sometime after 2003 it looks like.

Preload clutch apply plate with grove for return spring
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Non Preload clutch apply plate without groove for spring
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17, 10 and 18 are for non preload clutch pack
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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by Captn. Crunch » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:48 am

Stroverlander wrote:
Now that I know you're talking about reducing clutch preload, it all makes sense. Thanks for helping clarify! :D
Yup clear as mud! I 100% understand why people who offroad their S-10's get rid of these tc's. if I wasn't so in love with the awd feature and how well it works I would chuck all this clutch pack crap in the recycling bin! I commend all of you who are venturing into the thicket with me. Maybe some good will come of all this and a new era of bolt in plug and play 4x4 sticky's are right around the corner.
Captn. Crunch
"I don't beat my rig-I use it to it's maximum potential"
1994 Safari conversion (sold) and miss'n it!
1999 Safari SLE AWD junked
2003 GMC Safari AWD SLT
cast iron Torsen equipped front diff
S-10 leafs-G80 rear w/3.73’s
2” body lift w/Falken Wildpeak AT’s

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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by doyoulikeithere » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:54 pm

I also love the idea of an Iron front diff with a torson ;)
wonder if y'all might know if you can change the axles in a front diff from the early style flange axles to the newer style stub/flange axles and vice-versa. I have a few aluminum front diffs from Gen 1 vans. BUT . I have a line on an iron front diff with the newer stub/flange style axles and I wonder if I can just swap in some older flat flange style axles or if that is not possible. Thoughts ?
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2016 Yamaha XSR900 - Silver.
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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by Captn. Crunch » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:25 am

You won't be able to use your axles. Sorry but they changed when they went from flanged to slip in. I'm pretty sure the hubs are the same so check the part numbers for the hubs and if there's only one you just need left and right axles to make the jump. Good find! Those cast iron diffs are getting very rare!
For anyone interested the cast iron front diff was only found in the five speed manual trans 4x4 S-10's. keep a magnet in your pocket at the pick n pulls
Captn. Crunch
"I don't beat my rig-I use it to it's maximum potential"
1994 Safari conversion (sold) and miss'n it!
1999 Safari SLE AWD junked
2003 GMC Safari AWD SLT
cast iron Torsen equipped front diff
S-10 leafs-G80 rear w/3.73’s
2” body lift w/Falken Wildpeak AT’s

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Re: Torsen front differential anyone?

Post by doyoulikeithere » Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:03 am

well, cant believe i'm looking up lordco part numbers on my time off, but here goes, lol

this is good to know !
looks like the front hub from 1990 to 1994 are different from the front hub from 1995 to 2001.
BUT,
the good news is that while the CV shaft P/Ns did change between 1995 and 1998 The front hub part numbers remained the same all the way from 1995 up to 2001..
So from 1995 to 2001, you could install either front differential as long as you use the corresponding CV shafts.
Even better news is that I used a 1995 frame under my 4wd van ;)
2021 Yamaha Tenere 700 - Blue.
2016 Yamaha XSR900 - Silver.
1990 Astro - AWD - Brown.
1987 Astro - With 5 Speed & 4wd - Silver & Blue.

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