Transfer case question

FROM AWD'S TO 2-SPEED MANUAL SHIFT, IF IT LINKS THE REAR AXLE TO THE FRONT AXLE, POST IT HERE.

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ken k
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Transfer case question

Post by ken k » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:31 pm

new here, i have a 90 astro shorty and picked up a 2004 Safari in feb, on the Safari the other day I noticed the AWD service light was not coming on, on start up, checked the ATC fuse is was blown and replaced it, later that evening went to go to the store, and it was binding going straight if you let off the gas the van would stop, felt like putting in a drive shaft that was supposed to be timed but wasn't, best way i can describe it, so i pulled the ATC fuse and still the same thing, it was locked in 4 wheel, so I pulled the drive shaft and its fine, front drive shaft if fine, new spindle`s and bearings up front, axle shafts and CV joints are new also, checked the front pinion when I took the shaft off, 1/2 inch of play left to right, so i`m thinking is just the encoder motor? or am I looking at a transfer case also?

thanks in advance

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Re: Transfer case question

Post by Drummernaut » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:28 pm

Should be able to spin the front drive shaft or the front output of the transfer case freely with the vehicle off. Can you?

If you have the front drive shaft off, remove the encoder motor and check to see if the shaft is pointing from driver to passenger. If not you shaft may be stuck. You can try to move it with a crescent wrench. If you are able to get it to pop back I would considered changing the fluid in the TC, twice. They say 100 miles between changes. Use Autotrac II.

If it does not go back easily I would get another TC.

ken k
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Re: Transfer case question

Post by ken k » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:45 pm

took the motor off, I can get the shaft to move but it wont lock in, its in the up and down I guess or 11 to 5 position, I can turn the output shaft with a pipe wrench but not by hand, it had clean autotrac in it when I changed it, making plans on another transfer case, any damage to the trans driving it like this?
thanks for your help

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Re: Transfer case question

Post by LiftedAWDAstro » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:32 pm

No damage to trans. The encoder motor is probably toast making the front end bind. Make sure all 4 tires are the same brand, style and size. Then pickup an encoder motor and you should be good.
Current rides:
2013 Toyota Tundra DC 4x4
2008 Dodge Nitro 4x4
2005 Nissan Sentra 1.8S Special Edition

Mileage spreadsheet

Vans owned:
1986 Safari 2.5L 4 speed manual - scrapped
1995 Astro 2WD conversion 4.11 posi, shift kit, DHC rock rails - sold to Skippy
1998 Astro 4x4 D44, D60, NP231, full hydraulic system with 9k# Milemarker winch and snow plow - sold to Lockdoc
2003 Astro AWD all stock - traded for a 3/4 ton truck
2005 AWD, 4.10's - sold to skippy

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Re: Transfer case question

Post by Drummernaut » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:40 pm

ken k wrote:took the motor off, I can get the shaft to move but it wont lock in, its in the up and down I guess or 11 to 5 position, I can turn the output shaft with a pipe wrench but not by hand, it had clean autotrac in it when I changed it, making plans on another transfer case, any damage to the trans driving it like this?
thanks for your help
That pin should be more like 12 to 6 but it sounds close enough. This pin will not lock in, the motor will keep it in various postitions depending on the slip detected. With no encoder motor power is should spring back to the 12-6 position.

You say you needed a wrench to turn the front output shaft? How hard was it?

If you can, drive the vehicle without the encoder motor attached but reconnect the front shaft, if the binding still happens then you may have a TC problem. If not, drive to the store and get yourself an encoder motor. You can drive it safely without the encoder motor. It will not damage anything.

ken k
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Re: Transfer case question

Post by ken k » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:26 am

I turned the output shaft with a small pipe wrench, if I was 20 years younger I could have turned it by hand, sucks to get old, I did order a new motor, Dorman, they want $225 around here for it I found it on line for $125 delivered, I`m going to start with the motor, the one I took off, was original you see the needle bearings rusted, called my favorite JY, $300 for the 136 transfer case, if I am going to have to replace this one, I`m leaning to do the conversion with the 233 I think it is, asked then at the JY they said they have plenty of those

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Re: Transfer case question

Post by AstroWill » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:41 pm

Amazon often has the Dorman 600-906 Transfer Case Encoder Motors on sale for ~$100 w/shipping.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C10D3G

ken k
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Re: Transfer case question UPDATE

Post by ken k » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:13 pm

drove the Safari without the drive shaft its fine, put the driveshaft on took off the encoder motor, still fine, installed the new encoder motor, put in a fresh fuse, the binding came back, forward and reverse, pulled the fuse and its fine, did notice with the fuse in going forward it made the trans shift funny, like too long for first gear to go to second, any way to test the sensors? or the TCC?, or is it the transfer case?, I do have ABS light on intermittently, did check that, right front wheel speed sensor

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Re: Transfer case question

Post by Drummernaut » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:31 pm

It is possible that your encoder motor is being turned on somehow. Once the vehicle is started, check for 12v at the encoder plug. If you have 12v there then unplug the TCCM plug and check for 12v at terminals A anb B. lf you have 12v at A and B you TCCM is probably bad. If you are getting 12v at the motor only then look for a short to ground on the black wire. Do the short check with the power off. Use this schematic to run down your proplem: download/file.php?id=2297&mode=view ignore the led and resistor added to the circuit.

Make sure all your connections on your TCCM and transfer case sensors are good and retest.

ls your AWD light coming on during driving?

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Re: Transfer case question

Post by ken k » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:31 pm

thanks for the schematic, encoder motor is turning on when you hit the key, I pulled the fuse till I can trace this down, didn't know there was a problem until I noticed no AWD light on start up, blew the fuse, the new encoder motor, its better but there is still a problem, never has been a service AWD light on while driving, now i have a place to start, going to pull the sensors also and clean them, I suspect the TCC may has been fiddled with, kick panel has been off and not put back on correctly, may have been taken off due to the E brake also, as the cables are cut at the rear, thanks again

ken

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Re: Transfer case question

Post by Drummernaut » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:44 am

Keep in mind there is a motor test done by the tccm in the first couple of seconds. You have to test for 12v between the A and B terminals and not to frame ground. The A terminal/red wire has a constant 12v. The B terminal is a switched ground which should be open after the initial motor test.

Normally if the sensors are bad you will get an awd light. I would concentrate on all connections and the B terminal to see if it is grounded. If it is always grounded by the tccm without an awd light then your tccm is probably bad.

It is possible that the B/black wire is shorted to frame but the tccm is supposed to check for that and turn on the awd light. Make sure you check the B terminal of the tccm while the connector is not connected to isolate in case the wire is grounded on the frame somewhere.

If it is true that your motor is on all the time without an awd light points to your tccm

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Re: Transfer case question

Post by ken k » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:22 pm

LOL, this will be ongoing till i fix it, I have OCD, in the past few weeks, I cleaned and tested the driveshaft sensors, no change, went to check out the TCCM, screw was rusted on the carpet trim, didnt feel like messing with that at the moment, decided to take it around the corner to a shop i use once in awhile, he doesnt know about trans or transfer cases, but he did hook his scanner to it, and it had a stored C0310 code, and a 1 speed actuator or 2 speed actuator, what ever that is

the C0310 code was possibly me turning the key on to check the power to the encoder motor with the harness discounted or a bad motor that I replaced

so the shop recommended I go to another place all this place does is transmissions and transfer cases`s come to find out we knew of each other from years and years ago, so his guy hooks up his scanner, and goes through everything, he sees the C0310 code also sees C0223, C0221, C0225, sees nothing with the TCCM or transfercase, took it for a test drive with the scanner plugged in, and it was in 4wd, then he cleared the C0310 code that was stored and another test drive, and scanner showed it was in 2WD

he recommended I take care of the ABS codes and then come back for another scan, said this may be the only problem, it may have just been the stored C0310 code, I said I wasn't that lucky, but its a starting point,

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Re: Transfer case question

Post by Drummernaut » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:10 pm

C0310 is Encoder Motor A/B circuit open which means your AWD should have been disabled until the code is cleared. It takes a scanner to clear or 100 ignition cycles without a problem.

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Re: Transfer case question

Post by ken k » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:30 pm

it did start working after he cleared the C0310, even showed it working on his scanner, will see whats happens

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