Torque Converter Mystery

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Krank88
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Torque Converter Mystery

Post by Krank88 »

Recently, I developed a leak in the front of my transmission and took it to a reputable mechanic who said it would cost $400 to repair the seal. The transmission shifted perfectly and exactly the same for the last 8 years. After 2 days in the shop, he called and said that the torque converter was bad, an additional $300(strange because the van shifted perfectly).He kept it 10 days. When I got it back, the engine appeared to be struggling(running too fast for the speed I was going), especially in 3rd gear, it seemed like it was in a lower gear going up a steep hill. It now has a vibration coming through the steering column in all gears. It now goes into 3rd around 20-22mph and into 4th at 40mph. 1st and 2nd gear also feel like a partially compressed clutch on a manual trans. Pickup is horrible.

I took the van back to the mechanic and advised him that I heard a ticking noise under the dog house(which I correctly guessed was a spark plug wire loose on the distributor cap) and advised him of the other problems. He connected the wire and told me to drive it a few days to see if that fixed it. It did not. My gas mileage went from 16mpg to 12mpg after they put in the new converter. I took it back and they test drove it and said that the valve and/or the pump were bad and the pressure was apparently not correct and the trans needed to be rebuilt(shouldn't they have known this before they replaced the TC?). They said I could drive it for a long time if I took it easy.

I have calmly discussed this with the owner, that I feel like the mechanic had possibly put in a bad converter(or some other mistake) and I feel they don't want to honor the warranty, because of the labor. The mechanic appears embarrassed about the whole thing. It appears they have no intention of refunding my money or correcting the problem. Why didn't I have any symptoms with the old converter? Also, the TV cable is frayed near the throttle, as if they may have forgotten to disconnect it before removing the trans. Just a guess. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Krank88 on Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

Post by 1Gary »

The TV cable could have been the problem all along and driving it without a correct adjustment would have caused the trans damages.
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1989 Astro-Ole Yellar cancelled-still selling off parts
1985 Astro-shop van R.I.P. my friend
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

Post by Krank88 »

Thanks Gary. This occurred to me also. I assumed that because they were a reputable garage, that they would have double checked that when I brought it back. I am holding off adjusting it until I am sure I cannot get it resolved with them, for fear they may try to say I tinkered with it. I have only driven it 200 miles since getting it back, but it was acting up when I first got it back from them(I thought the spark plug wire was causing the vibration). Nevertheless, that is a good point and I am going to check it within a few days. thanks

In addition, I don't think the tv was out of adjustment before the repair because the transmission shifted perfectly. But, again, something to consider.

The question is: If they put a new torque converter in an old transmission(that is otherwise shifting/working good), could it stress the old transmission to the point of acting this way?
Last edited by Krank88 on Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

Post by LiftedAWDAstro »

I would talk to the owner again and let him know you are going to the BBB and file a complaint. If it drove fine before and only had a leak, THEY need to fix what they messed up. Might be as simple as adjusting the tv cable. There is a procedure here someplace on how to do it.
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

Post by Krank88 »

Thanks AWD. I agree. Just to be safe, I will try to adjust the tv cable myself, but I do not have a lot of hope. Thanks again
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

Post by 1Gary »

I recommend you fix/touch. 0,nada ,zip.For effect have it towed to the tranny shop.If you don't stand up for your self and tell them it is their responsibility to repair it,your the one who is going to end up eating it.The minute you change anything at all,you have relieved them.
1979 Malibu drag race only car
1999 Sonoma 4.3 5 speed-Rufus
1989 Astro-Ole Yellar cancelled-still selling off parts
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

Post by brokenwrench »

Krank88 wrote:Recently, I developed a leak in the front of my transmission and took it to a reputable mechanic who said it would cost $400 to repair the seal. The transmission shifted perfectly and exactly the same for the last 8 years. After 2 days in the shop, he called and said that the torque converter was bad, an additional $300(strange because the van shifted perfectly).He kept it 10 days. When I got it back, the engine appeared to be struggling(running too fast for the speed I was going), especially in 3rd gear, it seemed like it was in a lower gear going up a steep hill. It now has a vibration coming through the steering column in all gears. It now goes into 3rd around 20-22mph and into 4th at 40mph. 1st and 2nd gear also feel like a partially compressed clutch on a manual trans. Pickup is horrible.

I took the van back to the mechanic and advised him that I heard a ticking noise under the dog house(which I correctly guessed was a spark plug wire loose on the distributor cap) and advised him of the other problems. He connected the wire and told me to drive it a few days to see if that fixed it. It did not. My gas mileage went from 16mpg to 12mpg after they put in the new converter. I took it back and they test drove it and said that the valve and/or the pump were bad and the pressure was apparently not correct and the trans needed to be rebuilt(shouldn't they have known this before they replaced the TC?). They said I could drive it for a long time if I took it easy.

I have calmly discussed this with the owner, that I feel like the mechanic had possibly put in a bad converter(or some other mistake) and I feel they don't want to honor the warranty, because of the labor. The mechanic appears embarrassed about the whole thing. It appears they have no intention of refunding my money or correcting the problem. Why didn't I have any symptoms with the old converter? Also, the TV cable is frayed near the throttle, as if they may have forgotten to disconnect it before removing the trans. Just a guess. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I fix these things for a living. If the transmission worked normally before the "repair" there is a short list of what he did wrong. First. there is more than one converter for these transmissions. I would want to know if he put a "new" converter in and I would ask him for the old one if it did not go in for a core exchange. He may in fact have put in the wrong or a used converter. He should be able to provide you with a bill for the converter.

My other suspicion is that he did not engage the converter properly into the pump and used the mounting bolts to pull the transmission onto the block and broke the pump drive. then he figured it out and backed it off and rotated the converter into the pump drive and messed up the pump.

you have low pressure, he may have messed up the cable adjustment, if you have driven it it is probably toast now. if you take it back to him he will disassemble it, hide his screw up and charge you $2000 to have it rebuilt.

i would take it to another shop, tell them the history, get a camera and take pictures to see what they screwed up.
then, off to small claims court if they do not fix it.
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

Post by 1Gary »

brokenwrench wrote:
Krank88 wrote:Recently, I developed a leak in the front of my transmission and took it to a reputable mechanic who said it would cost $400 to repair the seal. The transmission shifted perfectly and exactly the same for the last 8 years. After 2 days in the shop, he called and said that the torque converter was bad, an additional $300(strange because the van shifted perfectly).He kept it 10 days. When I got it back, the engine appeared to be struggling(running too fast for the speed I was going), especially in 3rd gear, it seemed like it was in a lower gear going up a steep hill. It now has a vibration coming through the steering column in all gears. It now goes into 3rd around 20-22mph and into 4th at 40mph. 1st and 2nd gear also feel like a partially compressed clutch on a manual trans. Pickup is horrible.

I took the van back to the mechanic and advised him that I heard a ticking noise under the dog house(which I correctly guessed was a spark plug wire loose on the distributor cap) and advised him of the other problems. He connected the wire and told me to drive it a few days to see if that fixed it. It did not. My gas mileage went from 16mpg to 12mpg after they put in the new converter. I took it back and they test drove it and said that the valve and/or the pump were bad and the pressure was apparently not correct and the trans needed to be rebuilt(shouldn't they have known this before they replaced the TC?). They said I could drive it for a long time if I took it easy.

I have calmly discussed this with the owner, that I feel like the mechanic had possibly put in a bad converter(or some other mistake) and I feel they don't want to honor the warranty, because of the labor. The mechanic appears embarrassed about the whole thing. It appears they have no intention of refunding my money or correcting the problem. Why didn't I have any symptoms with the old converter? Also, the TV cable is frayed near the throttle, as if they may have forgotten to disconnect it before removing the trans. Just a guess. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I fix these things for a living. If the transmission worked normally before the "repair" there is a short list of what he did wrong. First. there is more than one converter for these transmissions. I would want to know if he put a "new" converter in and I would ask him for the old one if it did not go in for a core exchange. He may in fact have put in the wrong or a used converter. He should be able to provide you with a bill for the converter.

My other suspicion is that he did not engage the converter properly into the pump and used the mounting bolts to pull the transmission onto the block and broke the pump drive. then he figured it out and backed it off and rotated the converter into the pump drive and messed up the pump.

you have low pressure, he may have messed up the cable adjustment, if you have driven it it is probably toast now. if you take it back to him he will disassemble it, hide his screw up and charge you $2000 to have it rebuilt.

i would take it to another shop, tell them the history, get a camera and take pictures to see what they screwed up.
then, off to small claims court if they do not fix it.

The last sentence X 10
1979 Malibu drag race only car
1999 Sonoma 4.3 5 speed-Rufus
1989 Astro-Ole Yellar cancelled-still selling off parts
1985 Astro-shop van R.I.P. my friend
1994 Astro LT RWD W4.3 rod knock RIP
1982 Winnebago single rear wheel-Chevy 350 Scraped 1/28/13-broken dreams......


Rochester,NY
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

Post by Krank88 »

Many thanks for the reply. I have taken the van back and he does not want to work on it anymore. He has already recommended me to a rebuild shop(one of his "friends") who I have called and is also very vague about the problem. The mechanic and the owner have become very vague about why the pump is not working right. Very solid information about the torque converter, because if it comes to going to court, I can subpoena the invoice. The TC looks new from just looking, but it could have been spray painted. I will look for a reputable transmission shop tomorrow and send him a certified letter with my concerns and file a complaint with the BBB. Many thanks, brokenwrench.
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

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I called my mechanic this morning to formally confront him about the transmission issue. His story is now changing and evolving. He says now that there was a lot of grit and debris in the bottom of the pan and when they flushed the transmission, he "felt" that it washed out the debris around the 3rd gear clutch and the clutch was weak and now it is slipping. I reminded him that when he called me about the torque converter that he told me the pan and filter was very clean. He then said that it was covered up on the bottom of the pan and he didn't see it at first. He said the debris that was loose after the flush must have got in the pump and valve causing the low pressure and vibrations. No proof, just speculation. The fact was he tried to give me the car back as if there was nothing wrong with it. Why didn't he tell me when I first came to get it. He keeps insisting that I just go ahead and drive it, that he "thinks" it will be al lright. When I file with BBB, I will ask him why he kept doing the repair if it had so much debris? I am going to take him to court even if it is just based on his and my testimony. We have a consumer action reporter here also(hey I may be on TV). I informed him that even though the van was old, the drive train and body were in excellent condition. I have kept every receipt on the car for last 10 years. I advised him that I paid him $700 for work poorly performed and that I now need a rebuilt transmission and can he explain if that sounds fair. Silence. Now he wants me to bring it by while the transmission is hot so he can explain things to me. I may not get my money back or even an adjustment, but I just can't let him get away with this without trying. It just ain't right dadgummit.
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery / now come the lies

Post by brokenwrench »

Krank88 wrote:I called my mechanic this morning to formally confront him about the transmission issue. His story is now changing and evolving. He says now that there was a lot of grit and debris in the bottom of the pan and when they flushed the transmission, he "felt" that it washed out the debris around the 3rd gear clutch and the clutch was weak and now it is slipping. I reminded him that when he called me about the torque converter that he told me the pan and filter was very clean. He then said that it was covered up on the bottom of the pan and he didn't see it at first. He said the debris that was loose after the flush must have got in the pump and valve causing the low pressure and vibrations. No proof, just speculation. The fact was he tried to give me the car back as if there was nothing wrong with it. Why didn't he tell me when I first came to get it. He keeps insisting that I just go ahead and drive it, that he "thinks" it will be al lright. When I file with BBB, I will ask him why he kept doing the repair if it had so much debris? I am going to take him to court even if it is just based on his and my testimony. We have a consumer action reporter here also(hey I may be on TV). I informed him that even though the van was old, the drive train and body were in excellent condition. I have kept every receipt on the car for last 10 years. I advised him that I paid him $700 for work poorly performed and that I now need a rebuilt transmission and can he explain if that sounds fair. Silence. Now he wants me to bring it by while the transmission is hot so he can explain things to me. I may not get my money back or even an adjustment, but I just can't let him get away with this without trying. It just ain't right dadgummit.

debris in the oil pan falls down with the fluid, it cannot go through the filter and has no route to enter the transmission, in the worse case scenario the filter could get plugged. any pan that is taken out gets cleaned, the fallout is gone. flushing does not send crap into the transmission. there is no place for crap to accumulate around any clutch pack. the cleanest part of the transmission is always the internals with all the crap in the pan.
adjusting the tv cable is easy, should do it to see if you can extend the life.
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

Post by Krank88 »

The mechanic appears to want me to keep driving the van in its current state and keeps telling me how expensive it is to rebuild it. It really does appear he wants the trans to burn up, so he can say I did it. The mechanic also seemed hesitant for me to take the car somewhere else for an oil change, so now I want to get it up on a rack and have a see. I called about a GM rebuilt and the cost is $1600 plus whatever the dealer charges to install it. I like the 100,000 mile warranty, so it is a consideration. But first, I will adjust the cable and get it up on a rack to see if I can get any clues and take it to a few trans mechanics - I want to know what happened. That frayed cable has me wondering. Thanks again, I appreciate your input.
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

Post by Krank88 »

I sent him a certified letter expressing my chagrin and dismay at the position he has put me in. I told him I am going to take him to court for damages and incidental damages(taxi fares while the car is being looked at by several mechanics, in addition to doctors visits, emergency room visits,groceries, physical therapy,etc). The meter is running.
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

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I filed a claim with the BBB concerning my trans, and the reluctance of the mechanic to repair his mistake. I'm not asking that he repair it now, as relations between us have eroded. He just keeps trying to BS me, so there's not much use discussing anymore. He keeps making inconsistent statements(apparently in an effort to discourage me). I'm asking BBB that he pay a trans mechanic to do any repairs. I am trying to get it to a garage, but they are all full this week(Cruisin the Coast, 5000 restored autos and antiques-they are everywhere). One bit of advice I can give about this, and that is, to stay very very calm when having this type of dispute. If one were to get nasty or abusive, it would only hurt your own case. And it is an emotional roller coaster, especially when you have to deal with a weasel(sorry for the rant).
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Re: Torque Converter Mystery

Post by MountainManJoe »

Sounds like a nasty situation. I hope you turn out OK.

My little bro wasn't so lucky. He complained about a shop that worked on his transmission, so they wrote him a refund cheque, which promptly bounced. By the time he went back, the business was gone.
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