Radiator,parts and the water pump from H**l

FROM RADIATORS TO THERMOSTATS TO HEATER CORES, IT GOES HERE.

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BonesandFeathers
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Radiator,parts and the water pump from H**l

Post by BonesandFeathers » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:32 pm

Although I am usually found under the hood of a Volvo, my wife's car of choice for the last eight years has been a 2001 Astro Van. It currently has 205,000 miles on a 4.3 liter normally aspirated Vortec V6.
When we first got the car there was no information available on it , and I just got tired of looking, for help. I'm an O.K. mechanic although If necessity is the Mother of invention I am her son. I have been taking things apart for as long as I can remember, with reassembly being successful in varying degrees. Time was i'd go to the junk yard and figure out how something came apart, that was already broken, to save my cars at home unnecessary trauma.
Any way , the "fortress of Solitude" has sprung a water leak.
I am going to ask two sets of questions here. I am ignorant of nomenclature, and the anatomy of this beast, and will ask you to tell me what I'm looking at so i can describe what the problem is.
The other questions will be, so if this is like that, is this what's wrong?
I bought a new radiator, an upgrade to a larger cooling area. So i'm looking at it and looking at the lines and hoses. The lines on the passengers side (p/s) are undeniably trans cooler lines, as they are where they should be and look just like they should.
The lines on the drivers side (d/s) are mystery to me. various sources have indicated that these are oil cooler lines. O'K. I followed the lines and they go to a widget above the oil filter.
I take the lines off (and i really like the quick disconnects) oil comes out of the lower lines, and water out of the top. If this is an oil cooler how or where do the fluids circulate to exchange heat? Unless the water jacket and oil galley somehow circulate through the widget on top of the oil filter.
The other hoses on the w/p are pretty much self explanatory as they have been like that since the dawn of time. One bypass, one out to the heater, one water in from the heater, water in from the rad, one engine coolant out to the rad.
My problem is I put a new radiator, thermostat, oil cooler lines and water pimp on to cure what had been chronic fluid loss. I have hung more water pumps than I an count. On volvo 240's you generally replace water pump and timing belt at the same time, on the other varieties i replaced it when it turned into a fountain. No to mention the parade of G.M and Chrysler products I've had my hands on.
I've hung it three times and it is still leaking on the d/s lower r/h/s.
I've changed gaskets, and am currently considering using some voodoo stuff from NAPA that claims to be coolant and oil tolerant, and not using paper gaskets at all.
So? I have a Chiltons for the F.O.S. but it is the most useless pos manual i have ever owned.
Could have had an All data subscription for what i paid for it.
So please What is the suggested torque, for the w/p bolts?

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Smiliesafari
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Re: Radiator,parts and the water pump from H**l

Post by Smiliesafari » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:42 am

I quit using paper gaskets years ago. Just for the reason you mention. They will leak. So....here's the way I would solve this problem. Remove the water pump. Clean the gasket surfaces....so clean that you would eat off of them. Same for the block where the water pump attaches. Run a flat file over the gasket surfaces to remove any high spots. Run a bead of RTV around the water passages. Bolt the water pump back onto the block. If you use a torque wrench, 25-30 ft lbs will be plenty. Give the RTV a couple of hours to set up. That should do it. Good luck.
1996 Safari SLX Hotair balloon transport vehicle

BonesandFeathers
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Re: Radiator,parts and the water pump from H**l

Post by BonesandFeathers » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:13 am

got some stuff from NAPA that said parts could be put back into service immediately.
I put the w/p back on with the new wonder sealant, and it's still leaking. I will try again tomorrow, an wait for the stuff to dry as I have tired of buying gaskets for it.
Is there any where else in the general vicinity, that would leak water down the face of the block on the drivers side of the w/p?

BonesandFeathers
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Re: Radiator,parts and the water pump from H**l

Post by BonesandFeathers » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:15 am

ANY idea about what goes on in the oil cooler lines?

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Re: Radiator,parts and the water pump from H**l

Post by LiftedAWDAstro » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:38 pm

The 2 oil cooler lines that go into/out of the radiator are just that, oil lines. There should be no water in them at all. Inside the radiator is a heat exchanger that sits in the coolant and should be sealed from the outside oil cooler ports. You can remove the oil cooler manifold off the engine block completely if you want to. Several have done it here due to leaky oil cooler lines.
Current rides:
2013 Toyota Tundra DC 4x4
2008 Dodge Nitro 4x4
2005 Nissan Sentra 1.8S Special Edition

Mileage spreadsheet

Vans owned:
1986 Safari 2.5L 4 speed manual - scrapped
1995 Astro 2WD conversion 4.11 posi, shift kit, DHC rock rails - sold to Skippy
1998 Astro 4x4 D44, D60, NP231, full hydraulic system with 9k# Milemarker winch and snow plow - sold to Lockdoc
2003 Astro AWD all stock - traded for a 3/4 ton truck
2005 AWD, 4.10's - sold to skippy

BonesandFeathers
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Re: Radiator,parts and the water pump from H**l

Post by BonesandFeathers » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:41 pm

Thanks for the clarification, been told several fairy tales about this, Glad to have it straightened out.
Thanks
I have reset the pump and have coated the w/p bolts in blue RTV sealant, waiting for the goop to dry will let you all know one way or the other.
Paul

BonesandFeathers
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Re: Radiator,parts and the water pump from H**l

Post by BonesandFeathers » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:13 am

It's amazing what people will tell you just to tell you something, The oil cooler lines are just that, Top in bottom out.
The w/p bolts do live in the water jacket I have no idea why they weren't more corroded.
I remounted the w/p i high tacked the pump side of the gasket( felpro after market), and put some new wonder gasket maker form NAPA on the gasket face. I found two medium long Phillips screwdrivers about the size of the screws in the u/r an l/l screw holes through the pump and the pump lined up nice and easy,. I tightened up the bolts to meet the run time of the sealant, then backed them out and gooped the bejesus out of them to keep the water in the water jacket, and off of my drive way.
Sadly none of this worked. After 26 hours of cure time i came home filled the radiator and the mystery leak appeared.
I'm going to have to take it to somebody who knows what they are doing providing I can find some one who won't screw me stupid. Otherwise I'll take it to the knackerman and find a Volvo for herself.
Any body want a Astrovan with a mystery water leak?
Any ideas about what else might be causing the water loss. It looks like it's coming from the w/p @ first as it runs down the face of the timing cover, from the general direction of the w/p but the area of the w/p just isn't wet enough to justify the water loss.
Ideas are appreciated.
Thanks Paul

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Re: Radiator,parts and the water pump from H**l

Post by v8famvan » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:12 am

Are you sure it is from the water pump gasket area? Sounds very much like an intake gasket is leaking down the front of the engine..... :-k
James from B.C.
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Re: Radiator,parts and the water pump from H**l

Post by LiftedAWDAstro » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:38 am

I too would be suspecting intake gasket leak. Could also be from the thermostat housing as it sits above the w/p. Check all fittings around the thermostat housing.
Current rides:
2013 Toyota Tundra DC 4x4
2008 Dodge Nitro 4x4
2005 Nissan Sentra 1.8S Special Edition

Mileage spreadsheet

Vans owned:
1986 Safari 2.5L 4 speed manual - scrapped
1995 Astro 2WD conversion 4.11 posi, shift kit, DHC rock rails - sold to Skippy
1998 Astro 4x4 D44, D60, NP231, full hydraulic system with 9k# Milemarker winch and snow plow - sold to Lockdoc
2003 Astro AWD all stock - traded for a 3/4 ton truck
2005 AWD, 4.10's - sold to skippy

BonesandFeathers
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Re: Radiator,parts and the water pump from H**l

Post by BonesandFeathers » Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:19 pm

Broke ow and took the FOS to a local mechanic we used once before when the van had an AC problem. Which they resolved reasonably.
As you suspected it is a Intake manifold leak that is drooling / cascading down the face of the motor.
Question.
why is there water anywhere near the intake manifold? Smog?
Anyway , I feel somewhat better that I haven't totally lost my mind and can at least still hang a water pump.
It's not going to be cheap, but given the time parameters I have for the repair, and my lack of familiarity, with the terrain, Having some one else reliable do it, is a viable solution.
Is there a video on U tube somewhere about this? I would like to see what i am paying for.

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