Van locked up/died in parking spot

ANYTHING TO DO WITH MAKING YOUR VAN MOVE EXCEPT FOR THE ENGINE ITSELF.

Topic author
TheUnicorn
I am merely driving my van
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Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by TheUnicorn »

Hi all,

I haven't come across something similar on here, in my admittedly-brief search.

99 AWD Astro, 130k miles. Front differential work 2 years ago. Recent rear differential work, and replacement of steering components. Started hearing a strange sound when coasting/off the gas only (sounded like metal on metal...like a dry bearing to me) that I thought was coming from rear diff, but according to the differential shop, it was coming from the transfer case. Ok, so I will need to prepare for that, but they said I could still drive it.

A week later, I pull 8 feet out of my parking spot, stop, and go to shift into reverse to make a 3-point turn, and the brake pedal starts feeling funny. Like it doesn't want to fully release when I take my foot off. And the van refused to move. I try a forward gear; same thing. I tried all the gears, same thing. Engine revs, van does not move. Brakes feel semi-engaged. No loud/bad sounds have occurred.

I thought the brakes were locked, so I jacked it up and could move the wheel until the front driveshaft hit the transfer case. Figuring my transfer case has suddenly self-destructed (though I heard no such noise) I remove from driveshaft. Can't get it to move, so I continue to the rear driveshaft (which I can't get completely removed).

So I'm stuck on a Friday night blocking all my neighbors' parking spots, and can't move the damn van.

As I'm about to give up, I drop it into neutral, and turn off the van. I can now push the van, back into my parking spot.

In hindsight, I didn't check wheel rotation with the vehicle on...

My theory is that it is some electronic sensor keeping the brakes engaged...but maybe it is the transfer case? (And hopefully not the tranny?)

Does one of you smarter than me people have any insights? I'd love to check a simple sensor before towing it to a mechanic! (Getting it out of my parking spot will be an ordeal in itself!)

Thank you for any help!

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Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by Captn. Crunch »

I’d start by checking the tc. fluid. If it’s still clean and blue than the tc. is not your problem. If the tc. fluid is good I would then chock the front wheels and put a floor jack under the center of the rear diff. Jack it up til both rears are off the ground and with the van in nuetral( wheels chocked) turn a rear wheel by hand. Listen and feel for catching and grinding.
Was there any steering issues? These vans use a power boost system that runs off the power steering pump and supplies hydraulic pressure for the brake system. I’ve never heard of it failing in the way you described but that doesn’t mean it’s not possible. Good luck and get back to us on what you find
Captn. Crunch
"I don't beat my rig-I use it to it's maximum potential"
1994 Safari conversion (sold) and miss'n it!
1999 Safari SLE AWD junked
2003 GMC Safari AWD SLT
cast iron Torsen equipped front diff
S-10 leafs-G80 rear w/3.73’s
2” body lift w/Falken Wildpeak AT’s

Topic author
TheUnicorn
I am merely driving my van
I am merely driving my van
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Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by TheUnicorn »

Whelp, I popped the fill plug off and stuck a rag in to get a fluid sample. The TC fluid looks about the same as the engine oil coming out of my dirt bike after a week-long trip...that means black/gray and like it's got gunk in it.

So off to the shop she goes...fingers crossed that TC repair will somehow make the brake pedal feel normal again!

Thanks for the thoughts! Updates as I learn things!

Topic author
TheUnicorn
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Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by TheUnicorn »

I thought of another question or two:

Pretty sure this is a really dumb question, but I'm gonna ask anyway...Is it safe to assume that simply changing the TC fluid is not going to bring it back to life?

Regardless, my next step will be to check for grinding and binding (which I expect to find, based on fluid color).

I forgot you asked about the steering...now that you mention it, I have a recollection of the steering also feeling heavy, though at the time it was hard to judge because the van wouldn't move... What can I check for/investigate to see if the power boost system is the problem?

Thanks!

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Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by Captn. Crunch »

I love that you’re thinking happy thoughts.... no a fluid change is not going to help you now. Call around for a used np136. You can also use the np236 from the S-10 4x4 trucks. It will work the same as the stock 136 if you swap over the 136 encoder motor. These cases are rebuildable so even if there are worn clutches in the used one, you can still drive your van. Keep your old unit and order a chain and a clutch hub assy. Rebuild your old one and reinstall.
As far as the brake/steering thing, I only have one thought on the subject. If your drivetrain is locked up due to a blown tc and you step on the gas it will pull your rpm’s down. This will cause a noticeable change in both your steering and your brake pedal as the power booster runs off the power steering pump which of course is spinning with the engine rpm’s
Captn. Crunch
"I don't beat my rig-I use it to it's maximum potential"
1994 Safari conversion (sold) and miss'n it!
1999 Safari SLE AWD junked
2003 GMC Safari AWD SLT
cast iron Torsen equipped front diff
S-10 leafs-G80 rear w/3.73’s
2” body lift w/Falken Wildpeak AT’s
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Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by MountainManJoe »

Captn. Crunch wrote:If your drivetrain is locked up due to a blown tc and you step on the gas it will pull your rpm’s down.
Maybe I'm missing something, but if I stand on the brake and the gas at the same time, my RPM still go up. I certainly don't lose brake/steering power.

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Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by Captn. Crunch »

timelessbeing wrote:
Captn. Crunch wrote:If your drivetrain is locked up due to a blown tc and you step on the gas it will pull your rpm’s down.
Maybe I'm missing something, but if I stand on the brake and the gas at the same time, my RPM still go up. I certainly don't lose brake/steering power.

Good point timeless. When all is well things should act as you described. Automatic transmissions are designed to withstand all manner of abuse and a “brakestand” is no exception. The torque convertor has an rpm stall rating which makes the whole AT idea possible. Now if there is something broken or locked up in the drivetrain itself, there could be reason to believe that things will not act as they normally do. This is all moot anyway as I just reread the OP and he stated the engine revved. I missed that in my first read. Now my brain wants to know...
Did it rev a little like when you’re standing on the brakes with it in gear or did it rev like it was in park even though it was in gear? Hmmmmm
Captn. Crunch
"I don't beat my rig-I use it to it's maximum potential"
1994 Safari conversion (sold) and miss'n it!
1999 Safari SLE AWD junked
2003 GMC Safari AWD SLT
cast iron Torsen equipped front diff
S-10 leafs-G80 rear w/3.73’s
2” body lift w/Falken Wildpeak AT’s

Topic author
TheUnicorn
I am merely driving my van
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Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by TheUnicorn »

Captn, thanks for the thoughts and insights. I'm going to go home and fire her up to see about a) the revs, and b) the steering.

Stay tuned!

Topic author
TheUnicorn
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Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by TheUnicorn »

(Potentially) interesting development: I turned the van on today and noticed that a) the brake pedal partially self-compresses as soon as I start the van and b) the steering is suuuuper heavy. Like I can't even turn the wheel. Surprised I didn't notice that earlier. Was probably distracted by "Holy crap, why isn't it moving?!"

Also, when in gear, with foot on brake (just in case) and revving, the revs go up a little. Additionally, when I rev, the brake pedal actually depresses more.

Very strange.

Under the hood, there seems to be a bit of gunk (technical term) in area of the brake/power steering reservoirs, but everything has dirt on it, so I can't tell where the seepage is coming from. But that area is generally dirtier than the rest of the engine bay.

Brake reservoir and power steering reservoir both have fluid (though could use a change).

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Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by Captn. Crunch »

Interesting indeed. There could very well be an issue with the power booster but you may wish to go one step at a time. I would get the drivetrain straightened out and then work through the next problem. Your tc should be the first item to repair if you don’t mind my saying so and then see what symptoms remain.
Captn. Crunch
"I don't beat my rig-I use it to it's maximum potential"
1994 Safari conversion (sold) and miss'n it!
1999 Safari SLE AWD junked
2003 GMC Safari AWD SLT
cast iron Torsen equipped front diff
S-10 leafs-G80 rear w/3.73’s
2” body lift w/Falken Wildpeak AT’s

Topic author
TheUnicorn
I am merely driving my van
I am merely driving my van
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by TheUnicorn »

I finally got the back end up on the jack, and found the rear wheel i checked to move pretty freely, as far as I can tell. Obviously some drag since I'm turning a big wheel through a differential and TC up to the tranny, but about what I would have expected. No catching or grinding feeling.

Power steering fluid was full, and actually not a terrible color, if a pale red/amber is appropriate. So this power booster thing: how do I diagnose? Where do I even start?

Thanks!
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Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by MountainManJoe »

I'm afraid you wasted your time. With both rear wheels in the air, one wheel will always turn freely. You weren't turning the tranny, the TC, the driveshaft, or even the differential ring gear. Only the axle side gears. That's what it's supposed to do anyway. Or did you actually see the driveshaft turning?

At least you know the rear brakes aren't seized. You should have started it up ,put it in gear and you would see what happens then. If the van isn't even straining or lurching then it sounds like a broken tranny or shifter to me.

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Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by TheUnicorn »

I saw the rear driveshaft turning. And for full transparency, the other rear wheel was still touching the ground. Guess the van is a little weight-lopsided.

Edit: Engine was off.

When I first encountered this problem, and again when I randomly started the van recently, it feels like the tranny engages, and like it wants to move, but something is holding it back. So my focus now is: how do I diagnose/repair the power booster problem? I will deal with the TC as well, but first the power booster problem.

thanks all!
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Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by MountainManJoe »

Details are important. So the driveshaft was turning (in neutral I assume). That tells us that at least the rear output of the transfer case is not binding.

If the brakes are leaky or the booster fails then I would understand a lack of brake power. But not a seized driveline. It's more likely to be a separated drum pad lining or something. By the way, the pedal drops when you start the engine on any car.

You need to test each wheel to see if it spins freely. If they do then get the whole vehicle off the ground. Have a buddy in the drivers seat operating while you poke around.

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Re: Van locked up/died in parking spot

Post by TheUnicorn »

Yes, driveshaft turning in neutral, engine off.

From talking to my differential mechanic, it seems that buying a complete rebuilt TC unit is the way to go. It doesn't sound like they dismantle, diagnose and repair the internal parts of the TC. Typing that sentence out now makes me concerned about using them for this. I did find this on Rockauto, and wonder if anyone has concerns about this particular rebuilder: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 33&jsn=509

It comes with a 3 year warranty, and is not the most expensive option either. Differential mechanic was quoting $1100, with only a 1 year warranty.

But back to hydro/power/brakes/steering. I would not say there is a LACK of brake power. In fact, it feels like the opposite; the brake pedal precompresses more than it normally does, and doesn't release to fully disengaged when I take my foot off. And feels like it's keeping the drivetrain from performing. But I guess there is some sort of failure in the system if the power steering is shot. The weird thing is it seems like all the power steering power has been transferred over to the brakes, making them over-engage.

I didn't rev it a lot when testing because that seemed like a bad idea. More like a slow blip to see if revs went up and if anything felt like it's fighting something else.

Since the van died this way while basically sitting still, I'm inclined to believe that the power boost system is the more immediate culprit, and my drivetrain, while certainly in need of attention, isn't yet locked up. Or that's what I'm hoping. And for a variety of logistical reasons around mechanics and towing, I kinda need to solve the booster problem first. I would then take it to another place for the TC work. Unfortunately, all of this is beyond my capabilities in an uncovered parking spot and no real garage to speak of.
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