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Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:55 pm
by OKflyboy
LaGrasta wrote:
OKflyboy wrote:Getting ready to do my lift here in the next month or so. I already have the shackles for the rear, and pucks for the subframe. Can anyone tell me the size, length and thread pitch I need for the subframe bolts for a 2" puck?
Of the six puck/bolt combo, there are two different size bolts. My suggestion is remove the back and middle bolts and make a parts run getting the same, but 2" longer.
Yeah, that's kinda what I was planning. I was just hoping someone would know exactly what I would need. Oh well, back to plan A. lol. Thanks!

Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:38 am
by doyoulikeithere
yup the ends are smaller and the centres bigger. 10 & 12 MM I think.

Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:26 pm
by rastafari03
Geeze man. This Overland lift isn't exactly cut and dried, is it? My instructions weren't exactly what I was hoping for. Especially reading all of your posts. The shackles, bumper relocation hardware, torsion keys all seem to have adjustment. I am after a 4" lift and expected to have to do some trimming of shroud and wheel wells. I have the complete kit and an '03 AWD. Some of the posts I've read say that I can achieve 4'' in the rear with the new springs and stock shackles...true? Then why the new shackles? If I do need them...their is three inches of adjustment, which hole? The front end is also a little bothersome. I just read a post and you guys went into the neg. affects of cranking on the torsion bars. Which I am slightly familiar with after adding a leaf to a Toyota I had (for weight) and then cranking torsions to level. She creaked quite a bit.

I need solid answers!!! (9DAWGS, T.LOW, GETABAGO) You guys all have the later model vans, used Overland kits. What exactly did you use out of it, including adjustment and what problems have you experienced, if any. Seems to me that you guy's are cruising all over the place.

I've gotta admit, I'm not going to be beatin' the crap out of the van. It's to get there and back!

So if any of you guys read this, I would greatly appreciate your input. Going to put off install til I get some solid answers.



Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:09 pm
by timelessbeing
It's not as bad as you think.

I used the custom shackles on the highest hole and it's fine (5" or whatever), but you can use any hole you like to adjust the rear ride height. Some people like it level, some like a more aggressive stance. They are better quality than the original, so you'll want to use them regardless.

The bumper relocation brackets gave me two options for holes. One for gaping space under the grill, and one for tight fit. I made it tighter.

I did not use the custom reindexed torsion keys on advice from Lifted and lockdoc. I may still put them in down the road if I can figure out how to relocate the idler arms. Right now I have the stock torsion keys cranked up all the way with no major issues. You may need to let one back out a little bit in order to level out the suspension (left-to-right)

The 'L' shaped bracket is to relocate the emergency brake cable. I think that part was left out of the instructions. It's pretty straightforward.

The little nuts 'n bolts are to relocate the upper control arms. Mine were a pain, but you'll def want to do that.

The upper control arm mounting points (where they meet the subframe) may have knock-outs. I'm not sure about your year, but my 2000 AWD didn't. The knock-outs exist to give you extended camber adjustment on the wheels, and they have to come out in order to get proper wheel alignment. This part wasn't in the instructions either.

Good luck!

Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:22 am
by doyoulikeithere
I had stock steel leaf springs in my 95 awd. Yes they were kinda weak from age. I wanted a 2" lift (or more later)
Anyways, I first installed shackles, and yes it lifted, but the tires would all rub really hard off road and in fact tore some lugs off. Handled poorly.
Next I added 2 inch axle blocks along with the shackles. It handled even worse and although, yes the rear was lifted 2 more inches now (4"), it would still impact the same place if I went over a big enough bump with ONE wheel. _~
I got sick of that set up pretty quick, So I phoned some spring shops like hub city spring on the island, talked with them and gave them the measurements of my astro springs.
The told me that the springs are the same size as S10 springs and there are many variations available. I settled on a set of brand new leafs packs in a 3+1 pack. 300bux, no shipping. Installed If I wanted too, but naw, takin all my fun away!! Not.
He said they had about 7.5 inches of free arc, and that I should get about 4 inches of lift from them. He was right. I have them installed in this picture.
I also have Overland's shackles installed with them, but I use the very lowest rung, only providing about 1 inch of more lift. I'm going to remove them and use the factory ones to level my van.
All I have done to the front of this van is 2 inch body pucks and turned the torsion bars up a little bit, I will turn them up just a bit more when I drop the rear 1", so it levels out.
For the front, I wouldn't crank the t-bars too much, so about 3-4 inches is going to be the max. Get a wheel alignment. For the back, I would recommend good steel leafs over any of the add ons like blocks or shackles. Truthfully, there isn't much at overland that you cant just get locally, except maybe the shackles and index keys. Sorry George. I got all my blocks etc from Dan @ Overland, but afterwards I noticed the parts around town at different stores.
2" body blocks: 2-with 12m hole, 4 with 10mm hole. and 6 long Bolts, I forget the lengths, but they gotta fit the blocks above. Re-use your brake cable bracket and drill the hole in it up higher.
Get Good steel 4" lift leaf springs. Go to overlands website and find the rancho part number for the shock for your 4 inch rear lift, and buy shocks locally.
I dont use index keys, but you could get a bit more front with them. I don't like the wear n tear and less handling, so I keep it fairly low for a lifted.
Plus I just finally got this particular one on the road this week and Its a 5 speed. Its an 87, so the steering box has more travel than the newer ones, so you can really crank the front tires hard over if you need to. It feels like I could easily just tip it over if I was doing dumb stuff. I'll try not to do that! I drove forklifts and jeeps for over 10 years.
Anyways, It was defiantly worth doing, for me. Others will have their own stories, but thats been my experience so far. Good Luck Man. :guitar: :cheers:
PS, hey Timeless, tell us more about this part, I wanna know more, see pix and everything. Please oh please. Lol
timelessbeing wrote:The little nuts 'n bolts are to relocate the upper control arms. Mine were a pain, but you'll def want to do that. The upper control arm mounting points (where they meet the subframe) may have knock-outs. I'm not sure about your year, but my 2000 AWD didn't. The knock-outs exist to give you extended camber adjustment on the wheels, and they have to come out in order to get proper wheel alignment. This part wasn't in the instructions either. Good luck!
The attachment image21.jpg is no longer available

Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:38 am
by timelessbeing
I lied. Image
The 4" AWD lift kit contains hardware for upper balljoint relocation, not control arm. You remove the rivets (PITA part), move the balljoint from the top of the arm to the bottom, and fasten it using the nuts+bolts provided. (see photo below) The idea is that you keep the balljoint at a more normal angle during extreme articulation. It's possible that this mod isn't necessary if you aren't winding up the torsion bars that much. I don't know if this works on 2WD.

As for the alignment, there's 3 styles that I'm aware of. Some use shims. Some have the knock-outs (Seen here in lockdocs reply to my lifting topic viewtopic.php?f=48&t=3535&p=36219#p36219). Some (like my 2000) can achieve perfect alignment simply by adjusting the oblong cams.


Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:29 pm
by LaGrasta
Don't be overwhelmed, it's easier than you think. It will be more obvious as you get under there and start wrenching. Mine's been installed for years, over 100k and it's fine, not a single problem.

The rear shackles will give you full suspension travel so be sure to install them. I like it level, but choose your preferred setting.

Front bumper will be obvious as far as adjustment. I made mine tight, the same as timelessbeing. I advise removing the front bumper first step. Again this is really easy with a pair of dykes to remove the plastic stick pins. Don't cut them, just pry them up and out. You can reuse all them.

Disconnect the e-brake bracket and let it hang until finished. It will easily relocate once all the pucks are in. Jack the body off the frame and slide in each puck.

Tighten everything down and proceed to thrash!

Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:48 pm
by timelessbeing
Hey Grasta. Do you have fabricating capabilities?
Tell me what you think of this idea: slice off some box tube iron, drill some holes through it, and use it to drop the idler arms down a couple of inches.

Edit: Never mind I just looked and it won't work. The lower control arm is in the way. It would need to be a different shape.

Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:24 am
by loopie
I was gonna mention it to you earlier TLB when I read you were still thinking about the idler're exactly right, the A-arm would hit upon compression. Assuming (I stopped looking into it once I saw this interference)...but assuming all other clearances were fine, you could, technically, lower the a-arm bumpstop.
But man would the travel and ride suck, if not be totally unsafe :cry:

Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:55 am
by T.Low
Your name is rastafari and you say the directions don't make sense? :muhaha: Why is that not suprising. :poke:

Sorry, man, couldn't resist. Sounds like all the Q's have been answerred. I did not get the ball joint relocation kit. I figure if I am willing to put in that kind of effort, I will go all the way with a staight axle swap. I paid for and received the torsion keys, but also am very hesitant to install them, so they have been sitting in my tool box for three years.

Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:59 am
by timelessbeing

You see how the idler dips down to get around the sway bay, and then rises back up? if you straightened out that section you could gain an inch or so. There's got to be a way to do it.

T.Low the relocation hardware was part of the lift package for me. I didn't order it extra or anything. I think the effort to install it is nothing like an axle swap. Apples and ... watermelons.

Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:11 pm
by rastafari03
Haaha! : ) Marley happened to be on the radio and the name just popped into my head.

Thank you all for the valuable info and vote of confidence. I think I need to stop looking at the instructions. I was hoping for step by step instructions for my particular application. I have instructions for every product they sell. When I look at the few parts cant be that bad. I've been gathering my tool/supplies and spent sometime under the van these last few days. I feel much more confident. I guess I'm hoping that all the nuts and bolts can be removed without breaking or cutting I ordered replacement bolts for the rear shackles, but wont be in till Monday, lot of good their going to do. I can't wait this is the weekend. Wish me luck and thanks again.


Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:10 pm
by LaGrasta
start spraying the Liquid Wrench now…

Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:33 am
by doyoulikeithere
And the pictures that follow the weekend?????????
:poke: :poke: :poke: :poke: :poke: :poke: :poke:

Re: Overland Lifts ???

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:02 pm
by rastafari03
Boy was, am I pissed! What is going on with the new torsion keys? They don't fit the stock torsion bars. The hex opening in the new keys is way to big for the stock bars.

So...needless to say the job is incomplete. I still have to relocate the ball joint and install the correct keys. Will post pictures and describe when its complete. I had some funny stuff happen.

Anyone know whats up with the keys from Overland? Sure would be nice to be able to call them.