Grrr!!! Hard Start

[Rileysowner]

Here's the info. I did the front end rebuild. The toe-in on the tires was way off, so it was a difficult drive for the 4 blocks I tried to drive it to get an alignment where I gave up driving because the engine stalled and would not restart. I got a tow to get the alignment done, and when I picked it up it started just fine. I got home no problem. Yesterday my wife drove it, no problem. Today, I was exploring why my grease gun kept slipping off the one grease fitting discovering it was incorrectly shaped so the gun would not hold on it, replaced it, greased up the lower ball-joint even more, and then decided to take it for a test drive. It would not start.

I could hear the pump kick in and then stop once it got to pressure. It would turn over with lots of energy, but would not catch. A couple of times it sounded like it was about to, then it didn't. Finally it did catch. I let it run for a few minutes while I took some stuff out of the back. Then took it for the test drive. All seemed well, and it ran smooth.

My concern is that I have a long trip coming up in a week, and cannot afford a no start between here and Harrisberg PA in either direction as it is not just me in the van. I am looking for suggestions on steps to figure this out.

I had a new fuel pump put in about 4.5 years back, so it is conceivable it could be dying, but I certainly hope not as the pump for the '97 is really dear and I have a full tank of gas.

Oh, is there a valve for testing the fuel pressure on the '97 and anyone have a picture of where it is located?

I think I will change the fuel line filter just in case it is causing some restriction.

I did change the cap, rotor, and plugs about 2 years back, but the cap and rotor were not Delco's so they died in a year, so I replace them with Delco. So the plugs AC Delco Platinums are 2 years old, the rotor and cap are 1 year old. Wires are ? years old as I got the van used 4.5 years back.

I don't have a fuel pressure tester, and Monday is a holiday, so not too likely anything will be open for purchasing one. Since I am in what is considered a vacation area, Canadian Tire may be open and they sell them for $59.99 which would allow purchase of one.

Alternator is showing over 14V so I am guessing it is fine, and there seems to be lots of power in the battery although I should test that out.

My thought was to pull of the dog-house and see what the cap and rotor look like, as that is something I can do whether anything is open or not. Any suggestions on other things I can test or look at?

[robertg]

you could check your fuel pressure while you check the cap and rotor, as you'll have to pull the doghouse to do both. if we lived closer, i'd lend you my fuel pressure gauge.

once it catches and runs does it run a little rough?

has it rained lately or is the humidity really high?

this sounds exactly like what my 2000 is doing right after it rains....

[Rileysowner]

I noticed a noise I have heard before, but never figured out what it is when I went out to test out starting it up again. I has sat for a few hours and started just fine, but whenever I start it there is knock, knock, knock sound right as the engine starts up. It sounds like it is from somewhere sort of around or a little behind the front seats, maybe more on the passenger side. Took my wife out to try to see if I could narrow it down, not much success, but she heard it every time as well. I said I thought it sort of sound like a tennis ball in a can being shaken back and forth 3 or for times. She looked at me like I was crazy and said is sounds like something knocking around so take my description for what it is worth.

I have no idea if this is related or another instance of wear and tear catching up to a 12 year old van in a completely unrelated to the two instances of a stall no restart until about 10 minutes later and the hard start this afternoon.

[Rileysowner]

you could check your fuel pressure while you check the cap and rotor, as you'll have to pull the doghouse to do both. if we lived closer, i'd lend you my fuel pressure gauge.

once it catches and runs does it run a little rough?

has it rained lately or is the humidity really high?

this sounds exactly like what my 2000 is doing right after it rains....

No, it runs nice and smooth once it gets started. This is a concern based on two incidences, but they both happened within a fairly short period of time.

If I can purchase a fuel pressure tester on Monday I will do that. If not I will just leave the doghouse off.

Yes, it was raining buckets when I took the van in for the alignment on Thursday, and it rained most of today with the van sitting in the driveway, so it may be moisture related.

[astrozam]

I see this problem quite frequently ( in wet weather ) I'm gonna bet you have a short from a sp wire to the back of the intake just like I had,move the wire slightly so it can't arc over and you will be good to go.The only way to see it is to have the dh off when its darker outside.Don't be worried about the van not running you won't get stuck in PA.

To be safe get a 12 vdc fan and keep an extra batt in the van, if you have a problem pull the dh lift up the dis cap hit it with the fan blow some air around the back of the engine ( everything will dry up ) and blamo she'll start right up.

[Rileysowner]

Zam, would replacing the wires get rid of this. I probably should have done it when I did the cap, rotor and plugs, but it was winter and the idea of running the wires on top of everything else . . . well I was cold and sore and thought I would do it in the summer. I just never did. I should pull the dog house and do some driving at night. So could you see the short when it happened?

[robertg]

i know there was a bulletin for gm dealers about the coil lead arcing against the transmission fill tube.

does your coil wire have some plastic wire loom around it where it may come into contact with the transmission fill tube?

i'm planning on pulling the doghouse back off of mine and checking the cap for cracks. i cleaned the terminals off about a month and a half ago.

[Rileysowner]

I will have to check that Robertg.

[crash]

do you have a spare coil to try? .. not just the wire, the coil itself? just a thought...

that tennis ball sound you speak of underneath makes me think maybe the starter is starting to crap out and possibly it's not engaging/disengaging properly?

dunno.. just shooting in the dark here..

[Rileysowner]

Nope, no spare coil. The starter did not seem to have any problems, and I have heard the noise before while driving and with the engine running, but stopped in traffic. It is probably not related, but I figured I would throw the sound out there just in case it is, especially since it has become much more consistent right at start.

[astrozam]

Zam, would replacing the wires get rid of this. I probably should have done it when I did the cap, rotor and plugs, but it was winter and the idea of running the wires on top of everything else . . . well I was cold and sore and thought I would do it in the summer. I just never did. I should pull the dog house and do some driving at night. So could you see the short when it happened?

I know my van is suseptable(sp) to start problems in damp weather, I changed my sp wires this past winter and yet I had a 3/4" arc from my wire ( right at the point it enters the plug boot ) to the back of my intake, as soon as I moved the wire slightly to a distance greater than the spark could jump ( thereby forcing the juice to go to the dis cap she fired right up ) There can also be issues with dampness around the coil ( which i also replaced ) and thats why I keep the fan,10 min of blowing air all around the back of the engine dries things off and she starts right up.I realize this is a buckshee method but it gets me to and from work whenever I encounter these types of problems.Rednek mecanic's 101...

[Rileysowner]

I guess my wondering comes from the fact that I have not had problems like this except for when the cap, rotor and plugs (or cap and rotor) were starting to go before this. At this point it is a little more than a year, I think, since I did them. As I think of that, it makes me wonder if it is that the coil is just not putting out what it needs to. I guess I will see how things look once I open up the doghouse tomorrow.

[Rileysowner]

Took the van out for a drive to a local conservation area to go for a walk. Started no problem both leaving and when we came back. I am hoping that it was just a combination of water and having the van sit for almost 2 weeks letting the battery get a little low. I'm still going to check things out tomorrow.

[v8famvan]

Jim, from my experience this sounds like it could be a faulty coil wire. As robertg mentioned, there was a recall on these coil wires for shorting out to the transmission dipstick tube. Remember that electrical energy will always take the path of least resistance. Wet/damp = easier path.

A quick way of testing it it is to spray the coil wire with a salt water solution while the engine is running. The salt water is electrically conductive (more than just plain water) & will cause the coil wire to arc out is it is faulty.

A second way of testing it is to use a test light connected to a good ground & just move the metal tip of the test light along the coil/plug wires. If there is a weak spot in the wire insulation the test light tip will provide an easier path to ground.

If you find that the wire(s) are shorting to ground, replace them. When you get new wires, don't go cheap. Get some quality wires as it is not worth the $10 -20 saving if you do not fix the problem or it does not last. Always put a liberal amount of dielectric grease in the boots of the wires. This grease will act as a sealer to stop spark leakage. Think of this a sealing a water pipe, no sealer = potential leak.

Now if you do not find a spark/ignition problem, follow your other idea & confirm your fuel pressure.

[Rileysowner]

Thanks James. I will see what I can see. If the coil is shorting out, I would guess that the fix is replace the coil. Not cheap, but not nearly as bad as a fuel pump.