Shock mounts, Bilstein HDs, wheels & tires for 4" lift?

[rvflyfish]

Hey everybody, long time reader, third time poster. This site is fantastic!

I'm about to lift my '03 AWD a la Marktanium, Snodrtrider, etc. I have the 3/1 S10 springs from SDTruckSprings.com and six 2" aluminum spacers from SpeedyMetals.com. (BTW, in both cases, shipping was more than parts, but oh well...it's still way less than one new van payment.)

Just waiting for my bolts from Fastenal. They should get here Monday.

I have the GU6 with 3:42 gears.

So, a few questions...

Shock mounts:
I noticed Snodrtrider cut and bent the existing tabs up, and then drilled new holes, doubling them up; while Stroverlander cut the existing tabs off and rewelded them. Any reason one way is better than the other?

Bilsteins
Can anyone tell me the size/part number/model number I'll need? Suntinez said F4-B46-1047-HD front and F4-B46-2136-H0 rear on her '91 AWD Tiger. But I don't know if those are right for my '03?

Wheels and tires
I'm thinking of 245/65-17 Wrangler AT Adventures on 17x8.5's. The 65 profile will just about make up for the 17" wheel. Comes out to a 29.5" equivalent. I'm guessing that will mean I have to do a little cutting/hammering, but I'm okay with that. I have 265/65-17's on my Tacoma and love how they handle. My offroad driving is limited to dirt, mud, snow and sand - no rocks - so the lower profile doesn't worry me.

Anyone have any input? Thoughts and ideas would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
RV

[photo_van]

I Just drilled new holes higher in the old mounts, then cut them off. Very simple but requires longer bolts and a few washers. Note that when you change the sock location you will need a shock with more travel and shorter compressed length than stock to keep from bottoming out on the shocks rather than the stops.

[Stroverlander]

Hey everybody, long time reader, third time poster. This site is fantastic!

I'm about to lift my '03 AWD a la Marktanium, Snodrtrider, etc. I have the 3/1 S10 springs from SDTruckSprings.com and six 2" aluminum spacers from SpeedyMetals.com. (BTW, in both cases, shipping was more than parts, but oh well...it's still way less than one new van payment.)

Just waiting for my bolts from Fastenal. They should get here Monday.

I have the GU6 with 3:42 gears.

Looking forward to reading about it, take photos and post them for us!

So, a few questions...

Shock mounts:
I noticed Snodrtrider cut and bent the existing tabs up, and then drilled new holes, doubling them up; while Stroverlander cut the existing tabs off and rewelded them. Any reason one way is better than the other?

Either way works, I did the weld on tabs because I could place them exactly where I wanted them based on measuring everything once lifted. Because the shocks are mounted at an angle, wheel travel to shock travel is not a 1:1 ratio and so shouldn't just relocate by how much you lifted the rear. It may be okay or you may damage shocks due to bottoming or topping out.

Bilsteins
Can anyone tell me the size/part number/model number I'll need? Suntinez said F4-B46-1047-HD front and F4-B46-2136-H0 rear on her '91 AWD Tiger. But I don't know if those are right for my '03?

I think you have the numbers mixed up. Bilstein has a few different part numbering systems too. Here is a link to stock replacement Bilsteins: http://www.allshocks.com/TRUCK/CHEVROLET/2004/Astro

Front AWD: B46-2136-H0 (24-021364)
Rear: B46-1047-H0 (24-010474)

Wheels and tires
I'm thinking of 245/65-17 Wrangler AT Adventures on 17x8.5's. The 65 profile will just about make up for the 17" wheel. Comes out to a 29.5" equivalent. I'm guessing that will mean I have to do a little cutting/hammering, but I'm okay with that. I have 265/65-17's on my Tacoma and love how they handle. My offroad driving is limited to dirt, mud, snow and sand - no rocks - so the lower profile doesn't worry me.

Anyone have any input? Thoughts and ideas would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
RV

29.5" will require some work, wheel offset/backspacing is crucial as well.

[photo_van]

Oh and BTW, you don't have to relocate the shock mounts. I ran mine in the stock position for ~10 years of moderate off road use without issue. I just relocated them this year as I plan to buy some new shocks with more travel.

[rvflyfish]

Thanks guys, very helpful.

My understanding is that stock 16x7 alloys have a 31mm offset. The "Size | Bolt Pattern | Offset/Spacing" for the wheels I'm looking at is 17x8.5 | 6x5.5 | 0/4.75" http://www.methodracewheels.com/collect ... atte-black.

They also make a 16x8 | 6x5.5 | 0/4.5", and I could mount 255/65-16s on it for a 29.1" height.

[Slicky]

If you go for the full 4 inches you would benefit from relocating the front upper ball joints .

I didn't change my shackles and found it difficult to mount the leaf springs . A trick I read somewhere work well. You use a ratchet strap from the shackle to a point forward. I used the sub frame. You install the rear spring bolt and as you raise the spring into place you can draw the shackle forward with strap to help line up the front bolt.

Good luck with lift. Where abouts are you located?

[rvflyfish]

Thanks for the tip, Slicky. Did you mount the springs long end to the front as they come stock, or short end to the front with a custom shackle like 97CargoCrawler? I'm in Sonoma County in Northern California, btw.

[Slicky]

I mounted the springs the way they come stock. It rides great , I see no reason to over complicate things by customizing the stock mounting points.

[Stroverlander]

If you go for the full 4 inches you would benefit from relocating the front upper ball joints .

I didn't change my shackles and found it difficult to mount the leaf springs . A trick I read somewhere work well. You use a ratchet strap from the shackle to a point forward. I used the sub frame. You install the rear spring bolt and as you raise the spring into place you can draw the shackle forward with strap to help line up the front bolt.

Good luck with lift. Where abouts are you located?

Upper ball joint relocation does slightly increase suspension travel/droop so you may want to cycle through full droop to make sure the shock doesn't top out before upper arm contacts subframe stop.

[photo_van]

I'm with Strover; the upper balljoint relocation gives you ~1" more travel, but will require longer shocks; the proper length so the upper control arm doesn't smack the stop on the frame (or put in a rubber stop there like that found on S10's) Also if you re-locate the upper ball joint you will need to get the front end aligned, something you don't really need to do if you leave them (or at least I never did).

[Slicky]

If you crank up the torsion bars enough to achieve two inches of lift you probably should get an alignment . It was my understanding that some folks have a hard time getting the the alignment within spec without relocating the balljoints . It also puts the balljoint more at it's original working angle prolonging life. I only did a two inch lift on my van because I came from a similarly lifted Nissan truck and had to deal with all this bologna . If I am wrong I apologize , I was just trying to be helpful.

[photo_van]

If you crank up the torsion bars enough to achieve two inches of lift you probably should get an alignment . It was my understanding that some folks have a hard time getting the the alignment within spec without relocating the balljoints . It also puts the balljoint more at it's original working angle prolonging life. I only did a two inch lift on my van because I came from a similarly lifted Nissan truck and had to deal with all this bologna . If I am wrong I apologize , I was just trying to be helpful.

No problem Slicky, I think relocating the upper ball joints has it's place (I'm thinking of doing it when I get new shocks) and I by no means was trying to contradict you . Since I've already replaced the ball joints, relocating them is relatively easy as they are just bolted on. Relocating the joints gives you more travel (articulation) (I measured ~1" at the joint which could be 2" or more out at the wheel) and as you said, it allows the ball joint to be at a more relaxed position.

But here's what I noticed when I changed my ball joints and is all personal opinion:

First, I didn't find changing ball joints that easy of a job, so I wouldn't personally do it as part of a general lift, put rather when the joints wore out. The top joints were much easier than the lowers tho!!

New shocks with the proper travel would be advised (the op is talking shocks, and investing in Blisteins, so now might be the time to get the right length shocks for more travel?)

Alignment: when you crank the torsion bars it does change the steering geometry; as the front wheels (suspension) travel downward, the camber is changed to a negative angle (bottom is out further than the top). It probably changes the toe in slightly as well. When I cranked my torsion bars to the max 100,000 mile ago, I couldn't visually see the difference, so I left it. I haven't seen any strange tire wear during that time. That said, the geometry has changed, so an alignment isn't out of the question.

When I changed my ball joints (one of the lowers was very worn out), I actually did relocate them!! I got it all put together, tires on, and saw; "WOW, the tires really have a positive camber" (bottom in), I hadn't anticipated that. I wasn't in the position (geographically or financially) to pay for an alignment at that time, so I put them back in the stock position.

I have since put in new torsion keys and given the van a little more lift. Now I would like a bit more travel (extension) so I'm considering relocation, new shocks and rubber stops for the downward travel and... an alignment!!

So really, there is no right answer.

[Slicky]

Cool, good info there. Also great people on this site .

[Stroverlander]

Photo_van, when you do your upper ball joint relocation, will you take before and after measurements at full extension? Thanks!

It's interesting you mention a stop for the upper control arm and I didn't know that S10s had something like that. I have considered adding or urethane pad even a urethane bushing over the upper control arm to see if it helped reduce any harshness at full extension. While probably not a huge concern, I also didn't want to do anything that would potentially stress the control arm in a different location than it was designed for either.

With upper ball joint relocation, depending on the diameter of the shock tube, the upper control arm may contact and dent the tube at full extension. Monotube shocks don't seem to be a problem with the (usually) smaller diameter tube but the twin-tube design and larger body of the Rancho RS9000XL (2.18" diameter) I used does make slight contact. It's not an issue because the shock piston rides on the inner of the two tubes but something to watch out for in any case.

Since I needed slightly longer shocks, I replaced my stock size Bilstein HD shocks and went with adjustable Rancho RS9000XL. Between myself and Bilstein reps, we couldn't come up with a longer shock that had really suitable damping characteristics and I didn't have the time or money to experiment. In the future, I do want to play with a custom valvable shock like Fox or King, but the Rancho RS9000XL have been more than adequate for my needs so far.

Here's the stock length Bilstein HD and slightly longer Rancho RS999152:

[photo_van]

Thanks for posting that photo and the shock numbers Strover. I certainly will measure that extension length when I get to that job. Some where I have the extension/compression measurements for the rear that I took under full articulation with the shocks removed. Curiously, how long is the Rancho at extension and compression?

Regarding the stops. I've always thought it strange that there was no dampening on the upper stop. But then mine tops out on the shock (full extension) before it gets to the stop, which I always thought was asking a lot from the shock

So I was at a junkyard, out in the middle of the desert, looking for an upper control arm bolt since one of mine rattled out somewhere even more in the middle of the desert (the van dives weird with only one bolt in the upper control arm, but that's another story). At the junkyard, not an AWD Astro to be found. But I see a newer 4WD S10 and what do you know; same looking control arm but more importantly the same bolt and cam washers!!

While I was pulling the bolt I thought; "hey lookie there, this has got a little rubber pad riveted to the stop, that's a good idea".